Today’s buyers expect to be able to see whatever they are shopping for in various colors, sizes, textures, and materials from different angles before buying. It’s all part of the customer experience. So, brands that make doing business on their website more convenient and a fun, exciting experience will find consumers will reward them with more business.

That’s why 3D virtual photography is a rising trend in the business world – it often yields more stunning results than traditional methods and can be more cost-effective.

If you haven’t utilized 3D virtual photography for your product photos, here’s a quick overview of what it is and how it can help your business.

3D virtual photography uses CAD software to create an image that looks like a real photo. These images can be very realistic and often look indistinguishable from an actual photograph. Virtual photography uses lighting, 3D modeling, and rich textures to create these images. Even though they look realistic, they only require a 3D artist’s talent.

To create an image, you first need to create a 3D model. Once the model is created, you can render the model as an image using other software, such as V-Ray, for texturing the images.

If you haven’t added 3D virtual photography to your website, here are four reasons you should.

Reason #1: Virtual Photography Will Save You Money!

Images have always been part of the customer experience, but in years past a couple of photos were enough to keep customers happy. Unfortunately, today it takes more and more to provide them with a good shopping experience.

According to eMarketer magazine, in 2016 consumers expected to see three images of a product when shopping online. By 2019 they expected eight.

Today’s online shoppers expect to be able to see what they are buying from all angles and want to customize what they are ordering. Having 3D renderings from virtual photographs where they can not only see the item from all sides but also see the item in various colors, sizes, and configurations is what online shoppers want now. As a result, online customization has become a vital part of the user experience.

In today’s market, companies are expected to use 3D virtual photography and renderings if they want to stay ahead of the competition. Moreover, with the increasing trend of consumers shopping online instead of in-person at brick-and-mortar stores, even those retailers and manufacturers who are more old-fashioned are investing in e-commerce.

However, it’s not easy to stand out from the competition, especially regarding imagery. In addition, product photography can be costly because of the transportation and photo shoots required.

But what about traditional photography….

With traditional photography, creating a set to display new products can be costly. First, you’ve got to rent a studio and set it up to best showcase your product. You’ll also have to hire an entire photography crew.

Even when the product is photographed against a blank backdrop, the cost of the studio, crew, and lighting must be considered. Doing a photo shoot becomes even more difficult if your product is oversized or otherwise difficult to photograph, such as houses.

Products available in multiple colors or configurations require images for each configuration. For example, let’s say you sell couches available in 10 different colors. With traditional photography, you would have to build a couch in each color, which can be expensive, and taking a photo of each couch costs you hundreds, possibly thousands, of dollars. And every time you changed or added a new color, you’d have to start the whole setup again.

With 3D virtual photography, one photo of the couch can be rendered in 3D and used in various ways, particularly in allowing customers to customize their couch in the color they want. Once rendered into 3D, the couch image can also be manipulated to show the couch in various configurations and options, allowing consumers to customize their couch. It also allows you to use the couch in different room styles generated by the computer.

For some products, you don’t need anything set up physically, and you don’t even need the actual product. With virtual photography, you can build your product without it ever existing.

3D virtual photography is an incredibly effective way to create stunning, realistic images that can save you time and money. On average, 3D virtual photography and rendering, or CGI (where the product image is created entirely on the computer to look like an actual item), is usually 5 to 10 times more affordable than traditional photo shoots.

Reason #2: Virtual Photography Will Help Increase Sales

Virtual photography is an incredible marketing tool that can bring your business to life with pictures. Whether you need photos for catalogs, ads, social media, or newsletters, visuals are vital in sharing what your products look like and their value to consumers. Even if you only market to other businesses, the business owner will likely use photos to decide if a product is right for them.

Today’s consumers expect to see 3D images when shopping online. Virtual photography and 3D rendering are vital in providing a great buying experience for your customers. If a buyer can customize your product, then it is critical they can see their customization before buying.

By using 3D rendering, your customers not only get to see your product from every angle, but it also allows them to see what their custom choices will look like. Having these 3D images available is especially important if you intend to sell your products on other sites, such as Wayfair or any successful online retailer.

Survey says….

A Harris Poll found US adults are 60% more likely to buy a product shown in 3D. Having 3D images helps them make decisions with more confidence.

In short, investing in quality virtual photography is a great way to show off your products and help increase sales. However, while 3D product rendering has become the more effortless choice, the tricky part is that these services come at varied costs.

For simple products, rates can start as low as $150 for a simple product and increases depending on how detailed or complex the product design is. The more detailed or complex the product design is, the more the rendering will cost. On the other hand, if your product needs a complete setting, such as a room scene to showcase your furniture, that will generally start around $500 and go up, again depending on complexity.

While these are average starting rates, cheaper isn’t always better. Many companies offer very cheap rates in many countries, but the reality is that there is no shortcut to doing a quality product. It simply takes time to pay attention to the details, and you do usually get what you pay for.

Reason #3: You Can Launch Products Faster with Virtual Photography

With any new product, it is essential to get to market fast. So, companies worldwide are racing to be the first to market with any new market.

One way to compete successfully is to ensure your product is in the marketplace first. This may not always be possible or practical with a physical product. Traditionally companies have built prototypes, at great expense, to get their advertising out fast.

With virtual photography, you can create a lifelike representation of a product that doesn’t even exist. For example, an artist can take detailed information about what the product should look like and use it to create a 3D model. This model is used in virtual photography to set up and photograph the product as if it were the real thing.

This can be a big help with advertising and making sure your product is out there first.

Reason #4: 3D Images Are More Versatile

Virtual photography is one of the best things you can use.  Create any scene you want without being limited by the real world.

In traditional photography, what you can do is limited by what colors are available, what props you can use, and the studio size. With virtual photography, you can customize the scene however you want. You can access any color, prop, or style you can imagine.

An advantage of using virtual photography is the versatility of the final product. Traditionally, photo shoots are used to get an image for a specific advertising outlet. Images used for a billboard, for example, may not be suitable for use in a catalog. You may need several photo shoots to get the best images for every advertising outlet, including your website design.

With virtual photography, the images can be shot in a format that can be used for all these different types of advertising, saving time and money.

3D virtual photography and renderings were groundbreaking when first launched by Nike in 1991, and in today’s market, shoppers expect this technology when they go to your website. If your company isn’t using virtual photography and renderings, you may miss out on potential customers and opportunities.

If you’re still using traditional photography methods for your business, switching to virtual photography may be your best decision. Once you’ve made the switch, you may never go back to traditional photography again.

However, even with the tragedies that continue to ravage our planet, it seems that a sliver of a silver lining is keen on keeping select others in good spirits. 

Though COVID-19 negatively impacted many businesses, some industries were able to take advantage of lockdowns and 6 feet distance requirements. The eCommerce industry may have been the biggest beneficiary, as eCommerce sales increased by over 43% within the first year of covid. 

With an increased demand for stores accessible at your fingertips and guidelines restricting gatherings, An already expanding service was sought out with vigor. 

We’re talking Virtual Photography. 

How has Virtual Photography impacted businesses?

Using CGI to create virtual representations of products, placed in settings and with different configurations, changed- not only how businesses were able to market. But also their ability to rapidly increase revenue with low initial costs. Enabling risk-free preorders, advancing focus groups to test customer sentiment, lowering marketing costs, and creating engagement with interactive scenes. A way to test, showcase, customize, and reuse, meeting all the needs at an affordable price. 

With another recession firmly gripping the economy. And inflation driving up everything from Rent to Gas; everyone is looking for an out. Or rather, an In. A way into the eCommerce industry. Many businesses had already switched their operations to being online during the pandemic. And when the world was resuming some semblance of normalcy, began to reopen their physical storefront. 

However, that was short-lived. 

Post-pandemic costs had skyrocketed, leaving businesses with much higher advertising and marketing costs that led to higher product costs to offset the increased expenditure. It became quickly apparent that the customer was suffering, and if the customers suffer, then so does your business. 

Virtual Photography is king. It has proven to be cost-effective, fast, and reusable. And a service that works alongside your brand strategy to maximize your business’s success. 

And as many businesses have found, moving operations online effectively keeps and expands their customer base, all while having a reasonable budget and materials that continue to work for them in a variety of settings and situations. 

The world is continuously growing into a system that values technology and accessibility. And with eCommerce being dependent on these features, you shouldn’t get left behind. 

Virtual Photography Services are here to stay.

For the last decade, talented CGI artists have refined their craft. Allowing the creation of scenes and products so hyper-photorealistic that they’re indistinguishable from actual Photography. And with COVID-19, MonkeyPox, and one thing after the next threatening the concept of direct human interaction, it is safe to say that Virtual Photography has become the future. 

Learn more about Virtual Photography with Jola. 

1. Accessibility
2. Speed
3. Security
4. Bounce Rate
5. Competition
6. SEO
7. Improved Technology 

• ACCESSIBILITY 

According to Outerbox, more than 40% of purchases were made on a smartphone during the 2018 holiday season. And to be more current, in the last six months, 79% of smartphone users have purchased using their mobile device. These stats strongly advocate why a traditional eCommerce website needs to enhance its accessibility. With a controlling percentage of consumers using their mobile device for eCommerce, rebuilding your site to be mobile-friendly or having it rebuilt as a Progressive web application is a step in the right direction. 

• SPEED

Users lose interest if a webpage takes more than 3 seconds to load. It’s a hard pill to swallow when you consider just how short a time 3 seconds is. However, consumers expect their browser to have an almost instantaneous reaction, and the longer it takes for a product or image to load, the more frustrated a user becomes. It causes them to lose interest in your products and trust in your Brand. Newer technology, such as PWA, has become the answer to this speed issue, allowing customers to view pages in a fraction of a second. An impressive turn away when 3 seconds is all it takes to lose a sale. 

• SECURITY

Data breaches, hacks, stolen bank information, and funds- all of these are some of the serious issues that online users face regularly. So, if they’re going to buy something online, they need to know that their personal information is safe and secure. Most browsers even tell you when you’re about to access a website that isn’t secure. Upgrading your website security by implementing a firewall, encrypting your data on your website, and using reCAPTCHA are all excellent ways to show users that they’re safe when browsing, and especially when purchasing on your eCommerce website. 

• BOUNCE RATE

High bounce rates indicate that users visit your website and quickly leave after viewing just one page, an undesirable statistic for an eCommerce website. However, there’s not just one reason for high bounce rates; it can be a combination of things. Poor landing page design, expired offers, moved or broken page links, slow pages or images, too many ads, misleading information, etc. The best way to pinpoint the issue while preparing for the site redesign would be to analyze the data from analytics software. Analytics play a significant role in gaining data about website traffic, and it’s the best line of defense when trying to understand the metrics you’re trying to optimize.

• COMPETITION 

Nothing says staying ahead of the game like a redesign- but it should have a purpose. In the eCommerce industry, you should always pay attention to your competitors. Checking the trends, the technology, and most importantly, the mistakes made. What your competitors do can tell you a lot about what your audience wants and doesn’t want and allows you to adjust to fit their needs. 

• SEO

Your SEO is one of the greatest deciding factors in ranking on search engines. It is the driving factor behind how your customers find you and your products. Having up-to-date information, accurate descriptions, current posts, and recently updated content, whether seasonal or topical, ensures that Google can properly crawl your website and display the most relevant and recent information to customers. Learn more about how to improve your content for SEO 

• IMPROVED TECHNOLOGY 

Technology is constantly changing, and the best changes are the ones that increase our productivity and keep us engaged. PWA,  (Progressive web applications) are a fast-evolving and revolutionary solution to M-Commerce (eCommerce done on Mobile devices). PWA is the only choice for website redesign with Offline capabilities, ridiculously fast loading speeds, native app-like characteristics, and user-friendly notifications. It increases user engagement, customer retention and has proven to be a driving factor in increasing sales. 

Jola is a North American Web Development company specializing in Magento B2B and B2C Commerce and PWA. Redesigning your website is a necessary step to take in your business’s journey, and with so many positive immediate impacts, why wait? Connect today.

Written by Teace Findlay

Designing quality virtual photography scenes takes time, dedication, patience, and most importantly, a deep and thorough understanding of the client. 

Ana,  an Interior Designer, says that “creating a room scene is like designing any room in your home. It’s an adventure because it’s fun. However, it’s also stressful because you don’t know if it’ll turn out the way you want. And very uncertain because you don’t know if what you’ve explained to the digital artist is what you’ll see at the end.”

By taking the time to understand the client’s needs, goals, products, and who they are as a business, Ana is able to design awe-filled renders that are then turned into amazing scenes by the CGI team.

When asked how Ana establishes a working relationship with the client, she said that she meets with the client to understand what they want to achieve. 

In her words, “Generally people want a room with lots of light and open space. And of course, it should be beautiful. But then, I take a look inside the client to see what they really want or if I’m able to assist them on this journey based on what they’re looking for. And in my experience, it’s much easier to start the conversation and get into the process when they know or have a fairly good idea of what they want to see.”

Ana and I dove into some of those comments, and what I’ve learned is that most people want what they perceive to be a beautiful room; tall ceilings, lots of light, and clean spaces. However, it’s essential to dig deeper and gather the unique elements for each client to design the perfect scene. 

Inside the Process

Having those initial thoughts in mind, with an understanding of what the client is looking for, Ana broke down her process from beginning to end. 

She said, “To narrow down the design, I usually make an inspiration board which contains a lot of similar spaces to what the client expressed.”

 “From that, they pick an image that they like best. Then I create a mood board using the image the client picked. Dividing into separate details for how each individual element should be done.” 

Ana describes this as the freer part of the designing journey. Allowing her to carefully look at notes and start bringing this room scene to life. Defining the style, color scheme, product locations, and mood takes a couple of additional sessions with the client, but it’s all worth it once the client gives the go-ahead.

Ana uses Sketchup to create clay models(above) to capture the final scene’s angles and desired product placements. 

From there, the model is handed over to the CGI team and then revised by Ana upon completion. Take a look at the scene’s progression. Going from a Clay model (above) to a Photorealistic room scene (below).

Ana says, “the most important thing to remember is what the client is selling. The room you’re creating isn’t a personal space. However, the product is very personal to your client.” Ana goes on to note that “a successful scene does not look staged; it has a kick to it! Hopefully, that kick is your client’s product, and even if it isn’t, everything should sit right. Every component must be designed with your client’s products in mind. To give them the result that best suits their needs.”

Find the right team

At Jola, we’re committed to creating solutions to help your products look better and sell better. We treat all of our clients with the respect they deserve. And offer them the time and dedication necessary for each of their needs. Connect with us today to start designing your Virtual Photography scenes.

Written by Teace Findlay 

With continuous advancements in technology, CGI experts can change the way we see things.  Swapping out backgrounds, building three-dimensional interactive objects on a screen, and even decorating a house without ever setting foot inside or buying a piece of furniture. They’re able to create the most complex scenes using programs that are not only cost-effective but also fast, produce hyper photorealistic images and allow for edits at any time. 

And there’s more. 

Benefits of using Virtual Staging

• Cost

Take a second to think about everything that goes into staging. Buying/Renting furniture. Moving. Professional photographers. Other professionals such as plumbers, masons, electricians, carpenters, e.t.c. The list might seem short, but the cost is high. By eliminating the need for equipment and additional personnel, each with their own specialty, you’re cutting your costs by more than 70%. And that is not a number to be frowned upon. 

CGI is the most cost-effective option when your goal is to showcase a property’s best features and get a potential buyer to close. 

• Creativity

Let’s talk about the freedom of creativity. When someone is buying a home, they start to envision how they’ll make it look once they move in. The walls. The appliances, the fixtures, the floors. From top to bottom, they’re dreaming up ways to make the property uniquely theirs. However, most buyers find themselves stumped since they lack the creative know-how to actively put their vision in motion. 

Virtual staging allows you to give your buyer ideas—just one, or maybe twenty. By working with CGI experts, you can create multiple options. Change the color of the walls, turn hardwood floors into carpets, make the guest bedroom into a home gym. You can let your creativity run wild- allowing you to appeal to multiple buyer personas. And at the same time, giving you a leg up in communicating a vision and creating a positive emotion in your buyers. 

• Visualization 

According to the National Association of Realtors, 82% of buyers said that a staged home made it easier for them to visualize themselves living there. In addition, studies show that 48% of homebuyers feel an impact when the living room is staged. Why? Because it’s where we spend most of our time. The living room is where memories are made, and if they can’t see themself creating memories with their family, they won’t feel the kind of connection they need to buy. 

And isn’t that what virtual selling is about? You want the buyer to be able to visualize what they desire. Just like using Visual Configurators in an eCommerce website, using Virtual Staging builds the desire and emotion that a potential buyer needs to purchase a home. 

• Increased sales

A crazy 77% of Realtors said that they believed virtual staging helped them sell houses. That statistic speaks for itself. Realtors understand the market, and they have a deep understanding of their buyers and the process. By acknowledging the difference in sales from staged and unstaged homes, they’re able to draw a firm and positive conclusion that Virtual Staging works! 

• Faster sales 

Homes are said to sell 73% faster when staged. What does that mean? Well, from entering the market to selling, the median is 70 days. So you do the math! Simply put- faster sales mean more opportunities. Virtual staging allows you to give your potential buyer all the options they need to make a decision quickly and in return, give you the ability to take on more projects which ultimately means more profit in less time.  A ratio that no one is mad about. 

In closing, what you need is Impact!

With almost everything happening on a digital scale, showcasing a property and getting a buyer to feel a connection becomes challenging without the right tools. But, by placing your needs into the hands of the experts at Jola Interactive, you can set yourself up for success. 

Create a mood board, collaborate on finishes, pick the lighting fixtures, and ultimately, build the most breathtaking scenery that gets your buyer to connect. That’s how Jola uses Virtual staging to bridge the gap between changed minds and closed deals—maximizing benefits for Agents and giving buyers the wealth of options they desire.

So contact Jola to sell more homes with Virtual Staging.

Written by: Teace Findlay

Traditional Photography is out

Ask yourself this question; How much does my business rely on the use of lifestyle and inspirational photography to present my products to customers?

If you’re in the furniture, lighting, hardware, and other products related to the furnishings industry, I’m going to guess your answer is; a lot. 

With the human eyes being the first line of defense, you want to make your products stand out in the best possible way. And since photography is cost-prohibitive and needs additional resources, it’s often difficult to create scenes for all of your products. 

There’s a lot that goes into Traditional Photography. Photographers, equipment, schedules, models, leasing/renting locations, print materials, and even redesigning the space for each particular shoot and product. These costs add up quickly, especially if you have a variety of products that need to be shot with their specific accent pieces and in different colors and lighting. Often, your products aren’t available in the various options you offer to your customers, which makes photographing them impossible. 

So how do you get around this?

Easy, Virtual Photography. 

Virtual Photography and its benefits 

 Virtual Photography is the creation of photorealistic scenes with 3D software that are often indistinguishable from the real thing. These scenes can range in size from vignettes to large environmental scenes. Indoor and outdoor settings all without any limitations. Scenes can be created in residential homes, hospitality settings, senior living facilities, commercial properties, and other locations that are difficult to photograph.

So, how can Virtual Photography benefit you and your business?

By using Virtual Photography, you substantially reduce your creative and photography costs. Providing you with previously unable opportunities and options that will increase the effectiveness of your marketing efforts and maximize the use of your sales tools.

How about time?

Time is of the essence when you’re trying to make sales. And having your photos ready faster means that your potential customers are able to get a look at your products before your competitions’, giving you an instant leg up in your industry.

Virtual Photography offers flexibility.

When you’re launching an Ad campaign, you need a large selection of creatives. Different scenes, on different backgrounds, in different sizes from different angles, to fit the limits of where you’re placing your ads. Whether it be on social media, or on the third page of a print magazine. By using Virtual Photography, you can order every kind of file you’d need upfront without second-guessing or reneging your previous order.

And of course, there’s speed.

Since everything is done virtually, you can rest assured that what you ordered will be done on time. And not just that, if there are changes that need to be made, a product placement that you don’t like, or an object that stands out awkwardly in the scene, you can have it removed, or altered to fit your needs in little to no time. In addition, there’s no need to scrap an entire file since each of these is editable and reusable. Meaning you can essentially switch out any or all of your products in an existing scene or setting for new ones. 

The most important thing.

Virtual photography helps bring your vision to life. Your goal is to capture the beauty and necessity of your company’s products and visually deliver it to your customers. By providing a mood/vision board, or creating one alongside a team of CGI experts, you’re able to breathe life into the scene in your head. All you need to do is provide your desired textures, finishes, and product models and everything will be virtually constructed. 

The end result is a stunning, indistinguishable realistic scene that showcases and highlights your products. 

With the covid-19 pandemic still holding the world in digital limbo, you should invest your efforts into Virtual Photography. It’s a smart and economical approach for your business. And thankfully, I know just the team for you. Jola Interactive has a team of CGI experts that creates amazing scenes to showcase their client’s products. They are a force when it comes to highlighting the beauty of products in a variety of industries. Home furnishings, Government facilities, Educational Institutions, Commercial, and even senior living. Contact them today to get started on wowing your customers into pressing buy.

Advertisers use the power of images to connect with the audience and convey the intended message about a product or business. In our everyday lives, we often come across impressive images and marvel at the possibilities of how the photo was taken. However, most of the time, these images are not actual photographs; they’re Computer Generated Images. Computer-generated Imagery (CGI) is quickly becoming the go-to tool for advertisers as advanced technology has made it more accessible and cost-effective. CGI offers endless opportunities for designers and artists to produce the images they need to represent a product. And when compared to traditional photography, CGI offers a range of advantages.

Advantages of using CGI 

Cost Reduction

CGI reduces advertising costs for businesses by eliminating the need for additional costs, like hiring crews for photography, moving, and even staging.

Product rendering is done using advanced CGI, removing the need for travel, a photographer, and all the other costs that accompany this route. By using CGI, you can get the background you want, the lighting you want, and set the mood in the scene you want, all without the cost of execution in the real world. 

CGI maximizes your time. 

No need to cancel or reschedule a shoot due to bad weather, traffic, or factory delay. Instead, you can handle all aspects of ad production without ever leaving your desk. By communicating remotely with the CGI team, you can rest assured that you have an abundance of time to carry out additional tasks throughout your day without the stress of wondering if your ad material is ready. You can be quickly updated, communicate concerns, and check on progress without ever physically needing to leave your space. 

In addition, it also saves time when there are a lot of different options for one product. Simply rendering the color, texture, or shape digitally is much faster than waiting for each product to be physically built. 

User engagement and satisfaction

Your ad campaign has a goal; delight your audience so they can become customers. 

Using CGI to create amazing product images, interactive ads, virtual videos, and room scenes is an excellent way to showcase what your business has to offer. Giving your potential customers the ability to change, customize and interact with products ensures that they get a unique experience that leaves a lasting impression. Instilling the confidence they need to buy from you and become loyal customers who brag about your brand. 

Marketing

In most industries, it’s essential to have digital renders even before the pre-production stage has begun. Visualizing the colors, combinations, and other physical features of a product can aid when doing market research, like through study groups. It’s also a great way to secure guaranteed revenue by taking advanced orders for products that haven’t been produced yet. 

And not just that, CGI can be useful in Real Estate. Selling a house has a lot to do with helping the potential buyer to envision themselves in the home. Using CGI to create lifelike room scenes for brochures allows real estate agents to have a leg up with enthusiastic buyers who have gotten a look at what their new home could look like. 

In that way, CGI helps create the emotion and desire that marketers need to sell the products their company is offering, no matter what it is. 

Increases the Brand Value

Though we wish it were different, your audience trusts what they see. They place value in the technology and quality of your products. And also the experience they have with your website.  

How fast your renders respond. If they’re able to view variations of products. If they’re able to interact with your products. 

By using CGI, you increase your brand value and trust your audience has in your website by giving them options, interaction, and full product comprehension. 

Options

Using CGI has led to limitless possibilities.  Bringing scenes to life, turning a sunny day into a snowy oasis, morphing an armchair into a loveseat, the list goes on. With computer-generated imagery, the only limitations are the ones that you set. So why hold yourself back? 

Cross-Platform Compatibility 

The best thing about using CGI is its adaptive nature. When running a business, you need to think about every possible way your audience interacts with your eCommerce website. 

Cell phones, Tablets, and PCs are the three most commonly used mediums for interaction, with Cell phones (mobile) making up a large percentage of user interaction. 

That’s why it’s essential to have the ability to offer your audience the same or similar experience, no matter what they’re using. 

Consumers value familiarity. They love being able to experience a product or interact with a page in a known way. This ease of use creates trust, converts, and breeds loyalty. 

From start to finish, CGI can be woven into your business. Increasing productivity. Decreasing costs. Driving up sales. Reducing turnaround times. And most importantly, delighting your audience.

Jola Interactive is a North American company with an amazing team of CGI experts. They specialize in the furnishings and home decor industry, creating solutions for some of the biggest names in the USA. Contact them today for a free site evaluation to find out how you can bridge the gap with CGI.

The author updated this post on 9/8/21